The A.C. Neilsen Price Survey

I have added some stuff since the original posting of this page. The pro-amway site made an attempt to discredit the information on this page and toss out a lot of personal insults. The worst insults came from an accusation that I had a nasty habit of using the wrong information when in fact he was the one who had the nasty habit of posting wrong information. He told me in a seperate email, that he was tired that night and out to get someone. That was obvious. Everything I have added is in bold and I'm NOT tired.

For almost a year now, I have heard of this professional survey that Internet Services Corp had the A.C. Neilsen company perform. This survey is supposed to prove you save money buying your products via the Amway distribution system and contradict the results of all of the amateur price surveys published by several people on the Internet.

A pro-amway site has finally published some of the items from this survey. I'm certainly not a professional marketer or statistician, but after looking at the few items posted on the internet by this site, I can now see why there was a reluctance to post the information. Even an amateur can see that there are many deceptive techniques used in this price comparison. I will identify what I think are unfair comparisons and then let you be the judge as to whether my comments are valid.

Over the Counter Medications

The three OTC medications shown are Children's Tylenol Elixer, Extra Strength Tylenol, and Neosporin. It shows that if you use Amway's generic brand, you can save 25-50% over name brand products. What a revelation! Using generic brands save money over name brand products. If you have a tendancy to purchase generic brand OTC medications instead of name brand, then you should compare Amway's generic brand Formucare products to the equivalent generic brands available in retail outlets.

Also, in two of these three comparisons, the name brand product is purchased in much smaller quantities. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that when you buy in larger quantities the "eaches" cost is lowered. It makes me wonder why they compare a 60ct bottle of Tylenol to a 150ct bottle of their generic brand or the 1/2 oz tube of Neosporin versus a 1oz tube of Amway's generic brand when both of the name brand products have containers available that are close to, if not exactly the same as Amway's generic brand.

Maybe it's because even an amateur can tell that if you use the same size containers and compare these OTC medications to their generic equivalent, you are not going to save 25-50%, you'll probably spend more...Don't take my word for it, go check it out. Please remember that last sentence.

The pro-amway site made these comments in regards to the above paragraph:

What this author expects you to do is say "Hey, good point!" because MOST of you will not go out and actually compare those prices. Notice he didn't either

Well... I clearly stated Don't take my word for it, go check it out Remember? What else can I say or do? Write a JAVA app to kick your butt?

I have always encouraged people to do their own price comparisons rather than depend on someone else's word -- including mine. Why? Prices change from store to store in my area. I could show you a lot more savings if I used prices from the local Walmart in my area. But it's not where I normally buy these consumables. Prices will also certainly change from region to region. And they will undoubtably be different than the nationwide averages computed by A.C. Neilsen.

He does make one valid point though. I didn't post price comparisons on the samples he posted. There was two reasons for that: 1) I have an extensive price comparison elsewhere (something that he has never done) that has been on my website for months and I didn't really want to do another one, and 2) my main intent was to show some very obvious apples to oranges comparions. Apparently that's not good enough for him.

I am using the prices from the same grocery store that I have used for every single price comparison on my website. I have not shopped around for the best price (or worse price which ever way you want to look at it). These are the prices I pay in my region of the country (as of Sep 98) which may not reflect the prices in the retail establishments you shop at.

I DOUBLE DOG DARE you to do your own price comparison.

FORMUCARE Childrens Pain Reliver 4oz - $4.45 + .14 (S&H) = $4.59
Medic Pain Reliver (generic store brand) 4oz - $2.48
Children's Tylenol Elixer 4oz - $5.98

FORMUCARE Triple Antibiotic Ointment 1oz - $4.50 + .16 (S&H) = $4.66
Medic Triple Antibiotic Ointment (generic store brand) 1oz - $4.48
Neosporin 1oz - $5.78

FORMUCARE Asprin Free Tablets 150ct - $7.60 + .26 (S&H) = $7.86
Medic Asprin Free Tablets (generic store brand) 100ct - $4.98 * 1.5 = $7.47
Tylenol Extra-Strength 100ct - $8.53 * 1.5 = $12.80

Psssst...I'll let ya in on a secret...If you're really interested in getting the lowest possible cost.... Why don't you buy in the quanitities that Amway forces you to buy at your local supermarket and you'll experience the same compound, blue-light, exponential savings shown above!!!!!!

Maybe it all boils down on how you DEFINE savings. When I compare similar quantities and brands, I save money at the supermarket. Other price comparisons on the east cost and west cost indicate the same thing. Yet the A.C. Nielsen survey is supposed to be valid for 83.6% (source of this percentage is the pro-amway site) of the stores in the U.S. So the only way you will know for sure is to do your own price comparison. If you do, how about emailing me the results of your comparison along with the region of the country you're in? I will certainly post them.

The only way I can fool myself into thinking I'm saving money is to compare Amway's prices to the prices of the smaller containers that A.C. Neilsen, the global leader in market research, has determined that we consumers normally buy.

I was kind of curious as to what McNeil-PPC, Inc., the company that manufacturers Tylenol, had to say. If you visit their website, you will see that they have a form where you can ask questions. So I told them about this survey and asked them if this information from A.C. Neilsen, the global leader in market research, was true. A few days later I did get a response from the Consumer Products Divison at McNeil. They had checked with their marketing department and according to them, the most popular Tylenol size purchased is the 24ct bottle.

Things may have changed since this survey was taken. The pro-amway site has indicated that this survey is using data from 1996, the last year that data is available. But do you really think that people's purchasing habits change that quickly?

Glister Oral Rinse

If you divide the price by the per use cost of each product you will see that the Glister product has 100 uses, the Listerine 50 uses, and the Plax has 24 uses. If you buy in larger containers, the "per use" cost will go down.

You should also compare this product to one that does not carry the American Dental Association's seal of approval. Amway's products may meet the ADA's requirements, but they are not listed on the ADA's website as having their seal of approval. Since they aren't listed, I asked the ADA about Amway's dental products -- just to make sure. They couldn't tell me whether Amway had submitted their products and failed or just never submitted them. I am guessing, but it is probably the latter. Why seek ADA approval when you have a willing customer base (distributors) who will buy the product without having the ADA seal of approval?

Glister Oral Rinse (100 uses) - $8.00 + .24 (S&H) = $8.24 cost/use=$.082
Listerine 1.5L (77 uses @ 2/3 oz per use) = $6.38 cost/use = $.083
Plax 24 oz (48 uses @ 1/2 oz per use) = $4.11 cost/use = $.085
Ultra Fresh 36oz (36 uses @ 1 oz per use) = $2.38 cost/use = $.066

I couldn't find an oral rinse that did not carry the ADA seal of approval. All of the generic brands had it. You would think that with all of the billions of dollars Amway has made over the years, they could afford to get ADA approval if they were really interested in doing so. Rich or Jay could take this out of petty cash and not even notice it. But then again maybe not. On the Forbes 400 list for 1998, DeVos and Van Andel's net worth has fallen from an estimated $4.5 billion just a few short years ago to about $1.5 billion in 1998.

The pro-amway site pointed out that even these generic brands have a much larger market share than Amway's dental products and can afford to do the tests and clinical trials required to get ADA approval but I have a hard time believing that Amway would manufacture and sell a dental product that did not have some of the clinical tests that is required for ADA approval. I also have a hard time believing that getting ADA approval is too expensive for Amway to consider doing it.

I reckon it all boils down to this. It's your teeth.

Zoom

Once again, the containers being used in this comparison are small. If you purchase these name brand products in larger containers, you will find more equitable prices.

But look at what else they've done. Divide the price ($6.75) by the per ounce cost ($.066), you will see that they are assuming the 1 liter container of Zoom will create 102 oz of cleaning solution. This implies a dilution ratio of approximately 1:2.

If you read the instructions on the container, you will find that the recommended dilution ratio for "heavy duty" cleaning is a 1:1 ratio. In 1993, Consumer Reports tested Zoom along with other cleaners. At the 1:1 dilution rate, it ranked 10th out of 18 cleaners. I wonder if Zoom would even beat the 18th rated cleaner at a 1:2 dilution rate. It's certainly one way to make it cheaper, but if it doesn't do a good job at that dilution ratio, what's the value of this concentration? Would you rather save money or elbow grease?

I already had posted a comparison of Zoom on my Home Care Products comparison page. I'm not going to repeat it here.

The facts?fiction author thinks the formula for Zoom has changed since Consumer Reports tested it. Instead of just claiming the formula has changed, how about posting the date it changed? In my opinion, this is nothing more than a clumsy attempt to deflect factual information from an independent, disinterested testing lab. I have heard other distributors use this same tactic when confronted with Consumer Reports ratings. They expect you to say "Hey, good point!" and not check up on them. I DOUBLE-DOG DARE you to ask Amway if the formula has changed since 1993.

By the way, Consumer reports is also another independent source you can use to verify that you do spend more on Amway's cleaning products and that there is always cheaper and more effective cleaning products available through the normal retail outlets.

This one is up to you -- Zoom is cheaper at the 1:1 dilution rate than the top rated formula, Lysol, but Zoom ranked 10th at this dilution. As I mentioned earlier, at the 1:2 dilution rate, Zoom will be even cheaper, but may not even beat out the lowest ranked cleaner tested. So it's up to you, would you rather pay a few cents more per ounce for the top rated cleaner, or would you rather save that few cents by purchasing a mediocre product?

See Spray

Since the comments I had posted previously about See Spray was based on an honest mistake posted by the pro-amway site, I have removed them. He had posted the per ounce cost of the rug and furniture shampoo as the per ounce cost of See Spray. If I ever use any of his information again, I'll certainly verify it before using it. I have replaced this section with the following

One fact that constantly amazes me is that no matter how many times I say this, no matter how many different ways I say this, it just doesn't seem to sink into the brain of some distributors. I have always stated that you can save money on some of Amway's products, even at suggested retail price. It's just that most products are more expensive.

See Spray is an example where you can save money. Even when I purchased Windex in 67.6 oz container, See Spray, (at the recommended 1:3 dilution ratio), was still a penny cheaper per ounce. This comparison has been on my Home Care Products comparison page ever since I first posted a price comparison.

One gallon of See Spray solution costs $8.04 (S&H included) and one gallon of Windex would cost me $9.36. Now let me ask you -- how long does it take you to use a gallon of Glass Cleaner? If you washed all your windows once a week for a year, would you even use a gallon? I reckon saying you save 47% sounds better than you'll save about a few bucks every year or two. Big savings huh?

Obviously, I have skipped over many of the items listed. Not because I couldn't find anything more. That really was childish of the pro-amway site author to make that comment. Since I have already posted extensive price comparison information, something that he has never had the guts to do, I can state with little hesitation that if you do an apples to apples price comparison and not hide between average this and average that, most of the items will be more expensive.

But don't take my word for this. Visit my links page and visit Amway Untold Stories and the Little White Lies page. There you will find several other price surveys, from different parts of the country, which all confirm that if you become a core 100% user of Amway products, you will spend more, much more. And if that's not enough to convince you, go do your own price comparison.

The intent of this page was to show you examples of what I feel are deceptive comparison techniques, which are:

1. Comparing their generic brand products to name brand products
2. Comparing their larger size containers to smaller containers when larger sizes are available
3. Using ineffective dilution ratios to drive up the saving's
4. Making you think you'll get fantastic savings when in reality it's only a dollar or two you'll save spread out over a year or more

It really boggles my mind that a professional organization would allow these kinds of inequities to be included in a price survey. It makes me wonder if this A.C. Neilsen corporation was just contracted to get the "average" prices of various products and the rest was done by Internet Services Corp.

Let me make something clear. The only thing I question is whether this company did everything. I don't think they did. It is my opinion that they probably passed the raw data to Internet Services and then Internet services put the rest together. This price comparison is just too similar to the other kind of positive but false information about the amway business that I have researched.

The reality is that on some products, you can save some money. No one questions that fact. However, if you become a core distributor and buy everything you can from your own store, you will end up spending more than you currently are spending on consumables and other household items from the catalog. Anyone who questions that is living in la-la land.

It is my opinion that this survey is just like most of the information that AMO's provide. It's positive ... it smells good ... it looks good ... and it sounds good, but when you actually take a look at it and analyze it with just a little bit of common sense, even an amateur can see that this price comparison is just another example of the deceptive techniques used that is intended to keep a person involved in the Amo-way business and, of course, purchase more Business Support Materials which is the real bread and butter of the Amo-way business.

I reckon that the next thing that will be coming out of the pro-amway site is a cost comparison at distributor cost. I know this is pretty rotten of me to say this, but Amway is supposed to be a Multi-Level Marketing business and not a wholesale buying club! You are supposed to market these goods and services to retail customers, not just buy them for personal consumption. If you wish more information on this really radical concept called marketing within Multi-Level Marketing businesses, please read the following information at the MLM Law Library:

The Legal Principles of Multilevel Marketing.
The Personal Consumption Dilemma -- Messages from Webster v. Omnitrition

In MY closing, COMMON SENSE seems to be lacking in the Amway fact?fiction author's rebuttal of many of the points I listed. Also lacking are some good observations as he used the wrong information in his rebuttal and also was totally unaware that he was the one who posted the false and misleading information even though I had clearly stated that his webpage was the source of my information. He read what he wanted to read and in typical fashion, ignored the rest.

This is why I tell you not to use the pro-amway site as your primary reference and why I ask you tell me when you see something like this so I can examine his data and correct it if it is wrong. After all, you are incapable of seeing and understanding these kind of deceptions and need someone like me to point them out for you and do all your thinking for you (not really just being sarcastic and poking some fun at the author of the pro-amway site). I mean, if you'll notice, I don't correct ALL the data on his website, it's too big of a job! I DO, HOWEVER, post corrections to his inaccurate data or his LIES.

Don't take my word for it....Go check it out!

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